NEED HELP on Intermediate 1A

[YoWolf]

I'm new to the board (but not new to message board ettiquette!  lol) so I'll give a brief history of myself...

I have about 2 years of previous experience Yo'ing from back when I was in high shcool when there was no such thing as a bearing axle, or anything other than a solid 1pc wooden Yo.  I was, I guess you could say, about as good as you could get with looping tricks and the very few "string" tricks you could accomplish with the toys of the time.  Many years later I saw someone Yo'ing on TV, almost in the background of an interview.  I had never seen tricks like this pulled off with a Yo before, and I knew right away I had to get back into the hobby.

For the past 3 months I've been playing with a new-style Henry's VIPER that I was able to pick up at a store nearby.  After a few days I was very quickly grasping the basic concepts, and pulling off tricks I never thought I would be doing. Although, I've always been an extremely fast learner, and have quickly picked up many skills in other "skill play" type hobbies such as juggling, contact juggling, etc. However, the VIPER is the extent of a bearing-type axle I have been able to get my hands on until this week when an order I placed for some better Yo's finally arrived from the states.  I now have a YYJ Lyn Fury, and a YYJ Hitman -- both suggested to me as great tops to carry me from the basics through intermediate and beyond.

I love the way these Yo's play, however I have two main issues I'm currently faced with which I cannot seem to get past:

1.  Stabililty -- while these Yo's are incredibly more stable in terms of holding their vertical spin, I find their small diameter (compared to the large-sized viper) allows them to sway side-to-side a lot more freely... making my aim (to hit the string) very poor.  I have no problems with the trapeze mount, and can hit that every time without fail.  It's other mounts, or landing on the string subsequent times in the middle of trying to learn additional maneuvers after the trapeze mount.  I can land the split bottom mount as well, but not as often... and when I do, I can't keep the Yo in it's plane very long.

2.  Even with the Yo tightened as far as she will close, the double yo-ring response system doesn't allow the Yo to return to my hand with a simple tug unless the Yo is still spinning quite fast.  I have studied binds til I've gotten sick of watching them (over and over and over, lol) and I fully grasp the concept of how they work and how to do them... I can pull off a basic bind most times but get a great deal of snag/tangle in the string gap afterwards.  The backspin bind is one I'm still working on, and yes, I have read the other threads here on binds.... which brings up the other half to this point:  I am seeing suggestions from a number of people to keep the Yo more responsive until you are absolutely sure you are ready to move on to more unresponsive play.  In that case, how can I get the Lyn (or the Hitman for that matter) to be more tug responsive?  and when that is accomplished,  how can I use the "solutions" to my first issue to allow me to learn the "more-than-2-layers-in-the-groove" string maneuvers?

My apologies for the length, but so far I have been extremely pleased with the amount of guidance and support those who frequent this forum have shown the "newbies" as opposed to other forums where newbs are bombarded with replies of "just practice d00d"... thus I wanted to share as much detail as possible to better assist anyone who would be able to point me in the right direction.  This hobby (sport!) fascinates me to no end, where it's a great deal of what I think about daily!  I can't wait til each moment I can spare to get away for a few moments and gain some more practice time under my belt.  I'm extremely eager, and open to ALL suggestions and pointers.

If you've gotten this far, thanks for taking the time to read this!!  

[celticpride]

Welcome to the board.  I don't have much time to respond now but I have a couple thoughts.  I am sure someone else will give more insightful comments.

I can land the split bottom mount as well, but not as often... and when I do, I can't keep the Yo in it's plane very long.

This makes me suspect  you are doing the mount wrong.

Even with the Yo tightened as far as she will close, the double yo-ring response system doesn't allow the Yo to return to my hand with a simple tug unless the Yo is still spinning quite fast.  

The first thing I can suggest is just to use a stronger tug.  They should be responsive with the gaps closed.  You might want to think about getting a Duncan FHZ also.

[MagL33To]

OK, I'm guessing the reason for your yoyo swaying is that you're moving your throw-hand, or not throwing straight. A tip for landing your yoyo on the string is to keep your index finger (or whichever finger the yoyo is pivoting on) straight so that it doesnt go off to the side, for instance when trying to land the split bottom mount (assuming you're right handed) if your left index finger is pointing down slightly, you will find that the yoyo will miss and go to the right of the string you were aiming for, possibly landing on the other string (I used to have problems with this when I was starting out). What is it that you are trying to do after landing the trapeeze exactly? And what happens?

To get less tangle when binding, make sure the yoyo is nearer your non-throw hand before returning it (i.e. there is less string between your yoyo and NTH).
To make your yoyo more responsive, you need to put a little lube in the bearing. Apparently yoyojam thin lube is good.

[jojoyam]

1. Stabililty -- .....

My comment... just practice d00d!  
Actually I've never tried\seen a viper but I can imagine what you mean..
Seriously though, my advice is to keep at it for some time and you'll get used to the size and be able to maneuver the yoyos more easily while keeping them stable.
Some of the things you could practice to improve your stability:
*Basic Sleeper throw (harder, straighter)
*Basic Breakaway throw (harder, straighter)
*Combos (frontstyle and sidestyle) that involve transitions between basic mounts, such as:
McBride's Rollercoaster
( http://www.mastermagic.net/TrickVideo/Advanced/Frames/McBrideRollerCoaster.html )
Zipper
( http://www.mastermagic.net/TrickVideo/Advanced/Frames/Zipper.html )
As I said, keep at it and you'll perfect it in no time!
 

2. Even with the Yo tightened as far...

As the guys said before me, a little drop of lube on the bearing will increase the level of response, but instead of yyj thin lube, I would suggest yyj thick lube, Yomega Brain Lube or 3-in-1.. I haven't used any of them as I usually play responsively with friction sticker responsed yoyos, but my experience (and other's) with yyj thin lube usually results in making the yoyo a bit less responsive or at least not increasing the level of response to the "tug-back" response you want.
As for doing multi-layered string-tricks after increasing the response:
Don't worry, it won't really make it significantly harder, especially as yoyojam yoyos are usually a bit more forgiving even when at more responsive setups, so I don't think you'll find any big problems..
If you have any further questions\requests, don't hesitate to either post or contact privately (pm, e-mail or IM).
Finally, I wish you good luck, and offer my help with any other questions\request, as I guess others are also ready to do so.
jojoyam  

[Doubleyou]

when you get to being able to throw staight.. this is actually what you gotto practice first! When you can do that, make sure you hit your trapezes staright... and to keep them straight, make sure the strings dont touch the inner surface(/response system area).. be cause this will make the yoyo tilt.

good luck

[YoWolf]

Thanks so much for the replies so far!  This is truly one of the main reasons I love YYN... and it's my first day here!  

In response to the feedback I've gotten:

The strength of my tug to get the Yo to respond is not an issue.  I can tug as quickly or as strong as I like and for the most part the Yo will just bounce into the air, the string desperately trying to wind itself into the groove, and the Yo just falls back down to the end of the string.  If the Yo is spinning very quickly tho, it will catch and wind back up.  I've got a bottle of YYJ thin lube, and have tried a single drop as well as adding another drop, and another drop, etc... to which I found made the Yo less responsive.  I'll try 3-in-1 (obviously after cleaning the bearing), and order a bottle of thick lube when I place my next order. (Thanks jojoyam!)

A big "thank you" to MagL33To for the tip on paying close attention to the angle of my "catching" finger(s) when letting the string wrap around... It's such a logical answer, but in the excitement of trying to advance quickly, it is certainly overlooked. This is exactly the kick in the pants I needed! I played for a half hour on my lunch break today and paid very strict attention to keeping my fingers perfectly parallel to the ground, and I immediately noticed a huge improvement.  Now to work on keeping them carefully perpendicular to the string at the same time  

My throws and trapezes are very very straight, as I learned them years ago, and have been practising for months on a VIPER which has forced me to be very precise.  Changing to the YYJ's has made it even easier to land these.  It's going beyond this basic mount which had me struggling on the smaller tops... I now have the tips I need to continue further.

Thanks again to everyone for their help!

[yoyoGstring]

Welcome Wolf!

I told you YYN was better than that other board. :)
Nice, smart people who are willing to talk to anyone. I love this forum.

[MagL33To]

No probs Wolfie. I'm sure you would've done the same for me

[Pat_Cuartero]

Hi YoWolf!  Welcome to the Nation!  We're honored to have you here!

Apologies for posting so late - I JUST got home from work...

If you want to practice TECHNIQUE:

practice doing some very basic tricks on a yomega raider, or any modified / imperial shaped yoyos.

Forget the butterfly shaped ones!  You'll be forced to perfect technique using something that doesn't "aid" you in landing mounts.

Some people may really disagree with me on this, but I really think it works.

It's kinda like...

You have a dartboard with everything to hit.

if you take away EVERYTHING except the bullseye, then you just keep practicing hitting that bullseye, then your technique will increase tremendously.

but if you have a regular dartboard...everything you get around the bullseye still counts, but it's not as great as getting the bullseye...

Apologies if I'm not making any sense..

you guys can start disagreeing with me now!

Good luck YoWolf!  Feel free to e-mail, IM, or PM me anytime!

[Slingblade]

Hey Wolf, welcome to the board.

Though I am by no means a veteran of the board, or of playing yo, I still have some advice.....

1. Pat said it first, play with an Imperial!

2. If you throw a yo, and it isnt spinning straingt, bring it back to your hand and throw it again, eventually this problem will dissapear because all your throws will be straight.

3. Use Geomerty, and keep those hands as close to parallel as you can!

And most importantly......

4. Learn as much as you can, and never give up on a trick!

I hope that provided some help, too bad you don't live down near me, I would help ya out in person.