Yoyo prices are completely ridiculous now

[AquaJoe]

As the saying goes, "If you have to ask how much something costs then you can't afford it".

[ShaunC]

As the saying goes, "If you have to ask how much something costs then you can't afford it".

Or, you're not a fool with your money.

[kiya]

This thread is seriously hilarious to me.
I've got multiple retail stores selling jeans for over $400, jackets for $900, and belts for $200.  I would like to think i've got a pretty good understanding of the differences between quality and cost.
The entire argument of "it's too expensive" is laughable because it's got less depth than a rich dude wanting to blow $XXX on some random useless object.  As much as Steve's posts in this thread may seem like flame-bait, he's nailing it.  
There is no "value" in our world, there is only "cost".  You'd like to believe that you understand value, but in the yoyo world and most niche markets, there's really no such thing as "value".  What you're getting in the end is a end result due to "cost" and most of the rest is psychological.


EDIT: At SXSW 2013 i'll be giving a talk and leading a panel on the subject of "The Fine Line Between Quality & Cost".  Come see it if you're in Texas/Austin.

[JonRob]

As the saying goes, "If you have to ask how much something costs then you can't afford it".

Or, you're not a fool with your money.

and...

you aren't the target market.

[ShaunC]

Sure, if your only target is the guy who doesn't care about cost and will spend any amount that's asked. But that isn't the only market in this industry.

[yomorrow]

Yoyo makers are in business to make money. If they can make more profit per yoyo, they will, even if that means selling fewer yoyos and thus the profiting evening out. If they are going to make the same amount of money selling 100 cheaper yoyos, as they make selling 50 more expensive yoyos, why wouldn't they just make the 50 expensive ones? Of course, they also want market share and repeat customers to their brand, so they will release cheaper yoyos. Thinking about C3 here. They've got a loyal fanbase now who started out buying their cheaper yoyos. They might just be picking up a $180 C3 now. So C3 has a wide base of followers, and they are making more money selling less yoyos now. Really the prospect is good for them. Not to mention, they essentially just made their brand look higher class, especially to those who buy. Personally, I don't buy many Duncan products. BECAUSE they are cheap. They have sort of a reputation for making basic, cheap yoyos. Which is fine, except, I personally prefer mid-range priced yoyos, for reasons I believe in.

Anyway, we tend to spend too much time thinking of what we want as consumers, forgetting that we are often at odds with what the makers want for their business interests. If they can get $180 per piece, which they obviously can, that's good news for them. It isn't really hurting their business in anyway. I won't be buying a Berserker, and they sure as hell don't care, because someone else with more expendable income than me will buy it. I can't whine about that. If I really, really wanted one, I'd scrape up for it. But, I think mid-range yoyos are where it's at. You know, the $50-$110 range. There are a lot of good options in that range, let's roll with it.

[Mr. Eli]

Hadog you Rock !! Mon Ami you nailed it.You sound enlightened friend .If I ever get to France id be like land the plane man .. Because Hadog is here !!!!!!  I have to say Conner1 is a great guy I found him at Worlds Trading away and had a blast talking to him .He is a very fair trader and he is a True Blue YOYOER !!! Then his Dad shows up with a Pizza and goes Hey how ya doing I am Conners Dad ya want a piece of pizza Being nice runs in his Family ... Hey Conner  Peace Man.

[hadoq]

Sure, if your only target is the guy who doesn't care about cost and will spend any amount that's asked. But that isn't the only market in this industry.

it isn't the only market, but it should be the most profitable, ultimately

there's also the point of image, as said above, some will not buy X or Y brand because it's cheap. Having a top of the line, expensive product in your product range promotes your brand (again, this thread is the perfect example, there's no such thing as "bad promotion") and improves your image. The point of such a "top end" product is not to make money on said product.

again you can see it a lot in the car business. Take renault for example (I really dislike that brand), but making "renault sport" tagged products, taking reference in their successes in competition, ultimately will help them sell more of their "basic" stuff.

This thread is seriously hilarious to me.
I've got multiple retail stores selling jeans for over $400, jackets for $900, and belts for $200.  I would like to think i've got a pretty good understanding of the differences between quality and cost.
The entire argument of "it's too expensive" is laughable because it's got less depth than a rich dude wanting to blow $XXX on some random useless object.  As much as Steve's posts in this thread may seem like flame-bait, he's nailing it. 
There is no "value" in our world, there is only "cost".  You'd like to believe that you understand value, but in the yoyo world and most niche markets, there's really no such thing as "value".  What you're getting in the end is a end result due to "cost" and most of the rest is psychological.


EDIT: At SXSW 2013 i'll be giving a talk and leading a panel on the subject of "The Fine Line Between Quality & Cost".  Come see it if you're in Texas/Austin.

will that talk be recorded by any chance?

Mr. Eli -> not sure if it sarcasm here, if not, thank you. and if it is, well, I still stand by my word. we do not live in a world of rainbows and unicorn, fair trade and whatnot. it's too bad, but there's nothing we can do about it. That ship is sailed, unfortunately. So either you "go with the flow" and try to make it within the world as it is right now, either you just go along, work hard, buy hard, and complain about "ridiculous prices" for all the stuff that you don't need but want so bad (like a $180 yoyo or a $700 iPad)


In europe we had this very interesting experience in the early 2000s when we all switched to the euro. Over the last 10 years, prices became completely crazy and what was considered "ridiculously expensive" is not "cheap" (even taking the inflation into considereation), just because the number on the pricetag changed. the psychological thresholds moved up big time when we switched to euro.

I remember a time when TV was completely free, I don't watch TV at all, but they're trying to sell it to me every now and then, and the prices are ridiculous, only so they can actually sell you some more.

we could go on, and on, and on, and on... just because most of our economy is based on this.


bottom line, the berzerker is a great product for brand promotion, and this thread is the proof that it actually works because we're talking about the brand, therefore promoting it.

[Mr. Eli]

Hadog no sarcasm intended  my friend .Respect is the word. I was in the U.k. when the Euro came. I saw the inflation hit hard and the old ways leave forever and said to myself at least I enjoyed the costs before the Euro came to town.

[beezy]

On one hand I do not think that everything should be price-accessible to everyone but on the other hand I am not convinced that high prices are justified by anything real. It just seems that at a certain level someone is just setting a price and seeing if it can hold. Is that what we call the "market" determining the price of a thing? It just seems pretty arbitrary. I guess that's been addressed already by Kiya - at a certain level it is psychological (not "real" in the concrete sense).

I don't know if they are worth it, but I do know what some of my yoyos cost.

Yesterday I played a ton on my $180 yoyo and then switched to my $10 plastic and really had fun using both. Did anyone mention in this thread that C3 also has a killer $50 metal? Just saying... for all the frustration over prices there are still some low-priced throws that offer high-end play...

[hadoq]

the only reason why prices are high is because people are willing to pay that much. The fault is not on the seller, the fault for high prices is on the buyers. If no one buys it, then it will not stay at the same price.

how much were the SPYY Pure Gold going for at release? then how much were there when they sold the last batch at YYN?

then how much was an Anti yo bapezilla when released, how much is it now? and why? because people are willing and actually do pay that much.

Mr Eli -> I wasn't sure about the sarcasm, we still lack lots of communication features on internet unfortunately. If you ever come in France, you'll be welcome to stay @ home!

[Jomo_can_yoyo]

Yoyos should be free seeing as how the world is ending soon 

[Steve Brown™]

Sure, if your only target is the guy who doesn't care about cost and will spend any amount that's asked. But that isn't the only market in this industry.

And luckily, the overwhelming majority of the yo-yos available are in the sub-$50 price range...which renders this entire conversation completely irrelevant.

the only reason why prices are high is because people are willing to pay that much.

...and because it costs a lot to produce things, and to produce them in such a way that a small business can actually remain profitable.

A $180 is either worth it to you, or not. The people making them know that to some people, they're worth it. So they make them, and sell them to those people. Trying to claim or infer some kind of wrongdoing on their part, or assign "greed" or some other such nonsense to their motives for making such equipment is foolish, ignorant, and only serves to illuminate your lack of understanding of basic market principles.

I've watched this very same argument happen in every single hobby I've ever been involved in. "Why does this cost so much blah blah blah". The answer is always the same, and it's never good enough:

Because it does.

Now, if all you Honda drivers want to complain about how much a Ferrari costs; if all you Swiss Army knife users want to complain about how much Boker knives cost; if all you Levis wearers want to complain about how much a pair of Flat Heads cost then by all means....fire away.

Just be aware that you're missing the point.

[yoyochucker]

Don't buy it....Don't buy it....Don't buy it....Don't buy it....Don't buy it....Don't buy it....Don't buy it....Don't buy it....Don't buy it....Don't buy it....Don't buy it....Don't buy it....Don't buy it....Don't buy it....


Prices come down.... its quite simple.

Unfortunately there are too many chuckleheads out there that HAVE TO HAVE IT!! OMG THAT NEW THROW....OMG I HAVE TO HAVE IT....and this attitude isnt just with yoyos.

[Steve Brown™]

Unfortunately there are too many chuckleheads out there that HAVE TO HAVE IT!! OMG THAT NEW THROW....OMG I HAVE TO HAVE IT....and this attitude isnt just with yoyos.

You're making the false assumption that this is the only reason that people buy top-shelf throws. It's not.

I won't bother trying to deny that for some people, it's just an acquisition for the sake of cachet. But you're completely discounting the actual worth of the item to the people it's being produced for by just assuming that its sales are entirely hype-based.

Again: Just because you don't get it doesn't mean there's nothing there to get.


EDIT: Also, I love the word "chuckleheads". Thanks for the smile.

[hadoq]

Sure, if your only target is the guy who doesn't care about cost and will spend any amount that's asked. But that isn't the only market in this industry.

And luckily, the overwhelming majority of the yo-yos available are in the sub-$50 price range...which renders this entire conversation completely irrelevant.

the only reason why prices are high is because people are willing to pay that much.

...and because it costs a lot to produce things, and to produce them in such a way that a small business can actually remain profitable.

A $180 is either worth it to you, or not. The people making them know that to some people, they're worth it. So they make them, and sell them to those people. Trying to claim or infer some kind of wrongdoing on their part, or assign "greed" or some other such nonsense to their motives for making such equipment is foolish, ignorant, and only serves to illuminate your lack of understanding of basic market principles.

I believe I wrote before something amongst the lines that "manufacturers don't really make money off high end throws, but they're more of an "image" thing for the brand"

I know (or at least I have a fair idea) how much it costs to run a business. This is why I'm entirely convinced that very close to 100% of those involved in the yoyoing business are doing it because their passion for yoyos, not for money. if you want to make easy money, there are other markets far, very far more profitable than yoyoing.

But, and it's not only in yoyoing, most people have no idea about what goes into margins and they just assume that "margin = money in the guy's pocket" while more often than not, it means the opposite. especially on high end, expensive stuff, where the sales volume is not big enough to generate actual profit.

C3 guys will not drive Porsches because they have one model that costs $180, far from it. I'd even be inclined (of course it's exaggeration here) to say that if they didn't make such high end/expensive stuff, they might get to drive porsches much more easily.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure all the low cost, chinese, bootleg and whatnot companies who sell $15 top playing aluminum throws, they probably make much more profit than C3.

it's much more profitable and easy to sell a big bunch of $10 throws than it is to sell, say a hundred of $180 ones. But having that $180 one in your products range will probably help you sell even more of those $10 ones.

[Preinfalk]

I remember when yoyos were priced for the user. Now it seems companies are just trying to make money. Most new companies come out with yoyos being around $90-$120, with the extreme case of one new one that just came out for $160. I don't really buy anymore unless I get a good deal on the BST.

[hadoq]

you know what? I give up trying to explain.

why don't those who believe they are "just in it for the money" go ahead and try it for yourselves? then come back and talk about how "greedy" they are.

[Steve Brown™]

I remember when yoyos were priced for the user. Now it seems companies are just trying to make money. Most new companies come out with yoyos being around $90-$120, with the extreme case of one new one that just came out for $160. I don't really buy anymore unless I get a good deal on the BST.

LOL

[ratfacedudeguy]

People are acting like this is every single new yoyo coming out from every single company. Got news for you guys, at the exact same time as the Berserker came out, C3 released the Yeah3 at $80! Where has that been mentioned by those who have their feelings so hurt by the "sweeping plague of unreasonably priced yoyos"? Hate to say it, but maybe all you guys complaining should hop back on the YYF bandwagon. Their pricepoints haven't changed, yet again that fact is just conveniently ignored with each subsequent argument. I don't buy new YYF personally, but that's because I don't mind paying premium. I don't know what you guys are experiencing, but what I've seen working in the banking industry for the past 3 1/2 years is that it's getting harder and harder to make a buck out there, and you the end user aren't the only one feeling it. Our beloved (or despised?) yoyo manufacturers are feeling the burn right there with us. I like to see my favorite yoyo manufacturers stay afloat. Don't you?

I remember when yoyos were priced for the user. Now it seems companies are just trying to make money. Most new companies come out with yoyos being around $90-$120, with the extreme case of one new one that just came out for $160. I don't really buy anymore unless I get a good deal on the BST.

By the way I just saw this after I posted. I love it.